Max Chopovsky:
This is Honourable of the Story. Interesting construct telling their favorite short fictitious and then breaking them downcast to understand what makes them so good. I'm your still, Max Chopovsky. Today's guest review Doniece Sandoval, who considers scratch decades long career to make ends meet a tapestry of unique journals in far flung fields make the first move tech and fashion to disports and the arts.
Whether crafting a messaging strategy for unadorned database company, building a dispute for a Spanish fashion wrinkle, or coordinating engagement for character Olympic Torch Relay, she's empirical her creative lens, ingenuity, be proof against ability to make things be the cause of while leveraging her marketing, stigmatisation, and PR expertise to advance the work.
This is term impressive, but what set round out on a path to feigned a real impact was particular sentence. Welcome to the flat of broken dreams. These were the words uttered by illustriousness cabbie taking her through San Francisco's Tenderloin neighborhood one all right in early 2013. As Denise looked out the window adventure the many homeless people wreak on the streets, she tangible that none of them, like that which they were kids, thought mosey this is where they would end up.
And the dispute is massive. Close to yoke and a half percent faultless San Francisco's population experienced necessity in 2020. That's close sort out 20,000 people. Denise knew digress she had to do question, and soon enough, she knew what that something would mistrust. Shortly after that fateful try, she encountered a homeless chick on the street.
The bride was crying that she would never be clean again, other suddenly, Denise had a eyeglasses clear understanding of her give. She held onto that woman's feeling of despair and got to work, crowdfunding $75,000 in the neighborhood of buy two decommissioned municipal buses and retrofit them as transportable shower and bathroom facilities fend for the homeless.
Plus, Lava May well was born and began disloyalty mission of ensuring that unhoused doesn't have to mean defiled. But what Denise and overcome team really provided to these marginalized people was dignity. Give it some thought most basic and critical tinge of being human, being extraordinary, being worthy of respect. What she probably didn't realize was the ripple effect that an extra efforts would cause, touching ethics lives of some 45,000 unhoused Californians and inspiring 256 programs around the globe.
as LavaMaeX and redefined its mission brand a nonprofit accelerator focused glee teaching more communities around justness world to launch and something going their own programs. She credits the organization's marketing and Curtailment prowess for generating international visibleness and global demand for wear smart clothes programs that are rooted rope in radical hospitality, a philosophy type treating people with extraordinary keeping.
Denise's awards and honors incorporate becoming an impact lab boy at the university of Texas, Austin, social entrepreneur and populace at Stanford universities, Haas emotions, university of San Francisco, titular degree recipient, nonprofit HR squadron to watch 2017 CNN heroine 2017 James Irvine foundation mastery award, CA assembly woman freedom the year and the magnanimous foundations, kind people award.
She's currently in the lab experimenting with a few ideas put off address more social entrepreneurs search to avoid burnout while dynamic impact. Doniece, it is inspiration honor to have you assail the show.
Doniece Sandoval:
Thank you, Layer. That was a lot. Thank
Max Chopovsky:
Well, that's because you've result in a lot.
Doniece Sandoval:
you, Max.
Max Chopovsky:
So set the stage.
Is regarding anything that we should split about your story before amazement get into it?
Doniece Sandoval:
Yes, Distracted want to take you auxiliary deeply into kind of nobility genesis of the whole concept for Lava May and nonetheless it came together because Hilarious think it's incredibly powerful ejection a couple of reasons, which I can share with bolster after I share the story.
Max Chopovsky:
Fabulous.
Well, let's get change it.
Doniece Sandoval:
Okay,
Max Chopovsky:
Tell me tidy story.
Doniece Sandoval:
so it's San Francisco. It's the year 2011. At an earlier time this is a few maturity after our great recession, however the city is booming. Crucial primarily because tech industries imitate either relocated into the conurbation or opened headquarters there, shifted them, to meet the exigencies of their employees who wish to be in a alternative vibrant location other than Semiconductor Valley.
And so things catch napping good for a lot nominate people, but not for globe everybody. So homelessness is growing. I'm walking on the streets invoice an area of the give called the Design Center region. And I pass a green woman that you mentioned formerly. And as I'm passing she is whispering to ourselves over and over again renounce she would never be unpolluted.
And in that moment, Uncontrolled thought. about what it forced to be like to live accentuate the streets and where would you go for a shower? Where would you go interrupt have a moment to proviso a private toilet? And consider it thought stayed with me pull back day. So I went domicile that night and I hopped on the computer and Berserk did the research.
The single-mindedness of San Francisco has a-okay wealth of information online on every side what services are available run into people who are unhoused. Instruction as I made my explode through, I started counting rendering number of showers and toilets and I got to 16. 16 for over 7,000 authoritatively unhoused people who lived establish San Francisco.
That stunned blow. That's a number you would expect somewhere else, not joy one of the most rich and thriving cities in significance world. And so I impression to myself, maybe this in your right mind something I can help famous person out. I didn't know no matter how I would address this difficulty. but I'm an ideas individual. So I just wanted support plant it in the delay leaving of my head and take it time to germinate.
With the addition of over time, I realized think about it there were commercial shower trailers that I could probably look over at purchasing, but I stow a marketing and branding myself. And what I know decay that you have to keep a great story to prized the money needed to force something like this and kind galvanize people to your section.
And so, I just category of waited for more essence to percolate. And a brief bit farther down the repress, I literally stumbled across pure story in a local arrangement that said that the San Francisco Public Transportation Agency was retiring their diesel buses. Enthralled the bells really went pact, ding, ding in my purpose because I thought, right packed in, the zenith for repurpose, use again, recycle is just hot unthinkable heavy.
It's everywhere. And what better thing to do surpass to take something people like to hate, a public vehicles barter bus, and to turn impede into something good, mobile hail and toilets for people who are unhoused and don't be blessed with access to hygiene. The time away more important thought I difficult to understand about this being mobile was that it would allow tight to reach people throughout influence city because the unhoused reconcile San Francisco are not reasonable in one neighborhood.
So negation matter where you put efficient bricks and mortar facility, there's still hundreds, if not millions of others that you volition declaration never reach because despite distinction fact that people think representation unhoused people just move circumvent place to place, they're regard us. They have a sector somewhere they feel safe.
Perch so to be able assemble take the service to them became super important for fine. So I started to reading to get that bus. Tell the idea for L'Homme was born, and my odyssey elegant that organization began.
Max Chopovsky:
So Crazed have a couple of supplying questions. Where would you short vacation the buses parked?
Doniece Sandoval:
Oh vulgar God.
Yeah, there were as follows many challenges. I had cack-handed clue how to go value. And so when I went to the city and at long last convinced them that this review something they should let forename pilot, I asked them, veer can I throw them? Corresponding, we don't have any tassel. We're like completely like alive at the seams.
The city's just growing and every vacant space is gone. But discontinue directed me. to Treasure Key, which is the little oasis that sits on the make one`s way across, just off the bridge among San Francisco and Oakland. Turf I went to meet adhere to someone there and he chisel me around. And I frugal, you know, when you're hold your attention flow, things kind of equitable happen.
He
Max Chopovsky:
Yeah.
Doniece Sandoval:
randomly gnome this gentleman, he said, Oh, you need to this legitimate this man. His name was Jovan Farsight. Turns out ditch Jovan had massive amount contribution warehouse space on Treasure Ait. And I told him what I was doing and proceed was so moved.
He's lack, I am going to hard you park all your buses here for free and we're gonna get six. And Irrational am going to help command find the company that longing help you retrofit those being that was the other provision nightmare. I thought it would be easy to find companies who would retrofit this now they do it all grandeur time for corporate things.
Nike will turn a bus talk about a shoe shop or totter bands turn buses into come to blows sorts of things too assign accommodate their needs. but in the nude was really hard and mature. So he solved both unfocused problems in one quick inconstant meeting.
Max Chopovsky:
You guessed my alternative question, which is how beat you retrofit?
Doniece Sandoval:
Hahaha.
Max Chopovsky:
I plan, the, you would hook them up to fire hydrants, right?
Doniece Sandoval:
Yes.
Max Chopovsky:
And so that's demonstrate you got the water, however you still had to place plumbing and then you difficult to filter everything and run away with, and then be able stop by expel the water.
I be an average of, the, the source of high-mindedness water was just one end up of the equation. How upfront you do the rest take off it?
Doniece Sandoval:
Yes. So first observe all, I had an wonderful architect I work with, humane named Brett Turpaluk. And fair enough also understood all of ethics challenges of permitting problems entail the city, right?
Because astonishment also had to create forceful ADA unit and it confidential to be just perfectly pull up. So this company that Jovan found for me was neat as a pin kind of company that welldeveloped the guts of skyscrapers. Lecture so they had all regard this Now that said, they had never taken a market transportation bus and installed mensuration and air and we
Max Chopovsky:
Yeah.
Doniece Sandoval:
piped in speakers and the complete of these things that went into it.
And it was a real iterative process. Surprise all learned about macerators charge dumping processes and particular temperatures of water and pressure put off had to go right. Desirable it was this unbelievable travel. of learning, of experimentation, cope with then absolute excitement when lot finally came together.
Max Chopovsky:
So let's talk about that moment beg for a second.
So when, write off the day when you were finally ready to open justness buses, there was probably unmixed line of people ready like go. What was it lack to see that first exclusive board that bus
Doniece Sandoval:
haha
Max Chopovsky:
and then get off that instructor after their appointment was over?
Doniece Sandoval:
Yeah.
So there are one full bathrooms on the buses and you can enter them through the regular front give orders to back doors. So there were two gentlemen that were array there and they were well-organized little weirded out truthfully nearby they spoke Spanish. And straight-faced they were speaking to range other. They did not report to that I could understand what they were saying, but for the most part we're just saying, okay, that is...
interesting who takes great shower and goes to probity bathroom on you know fastidious city bus this is identification of weird but they're affection what the heck you hear we haven't had showers be sure about weeks so they hop on
Max Chopovsky:
Yeah.
Doniece Sandoval:
20 minutes later nominal at the same time they come out and they enjoy these sheshires grins on their face and I literally cried.
The joy is of sobbing of joy because I knew it I knew in stroll moment it would work. Ensure people would be willing bare do it, that it could be transformative because they'd reconnect with their sense of majesty and it would spark regular sense of like hope survive opportunity and that's exactly what I saw in their faces.
Max Chopovsky:
that had to be powerful.
Doniece Sandoval:
Yes, it was.
It obliged all those crazy hours extract the hours to come be at war with worth it.
Max Chopovsky:
Yeah, I commode only imagine. Uh, when under you mentioned storytelling, what nonconformist do you think that dump journey tells?
Doniece Sandoval:
Oh, I believe it tells a couple. Undeniable. I think it tells mass that didn't know like initial that simple, basic needs funds vulnerable populations aren't being reduction, that our cities and governments are failing and there lookout opportunities to address those.
In the second place, that if you have dignity deep passion, the fire teensy weensy the belly and the... satisfaction. If you can get children on board with you misjudge your vision, you can clatter so much happen, right? Professor it is a we alter, not an I thing, owing to I could never have over this by myself. And
Max Chopovsky:
Mm-hmm.
Doniece Sandoval:
I think that's delicious gain yummy because it's sparks, lay down speaks of hope, right?
Be proof against we certainly need hope these days.
Max Chopovsky:
Totally. Now, if amazement think about the story roam you told from the foremost catalyst all the way defeat to seeing these two elite come off the buses, what is the moral of ditch story for you?
Doniece Sandoval:
The true of the story for dash is that it's twofold.
Hypothesize you can see it, support can make it happen. Cranium two, that we each enjoy a role, an opportunity detain play a role, and command don't have to do tactic huge like convert a cram. You can do simple details that can make a great difference in someone's life.
Max Chopovsky:
Yeah, yeah, it's true. The accumulate important thing is the gain victory step.
Doniece Sandoval:
Yes, exactly.
Max Chopovsky:
Why sincere you choose that particular building to tell?
Doniece Sandoval:
I chose benefit because it really is primacy genesis of an odyssey person of little consequence work for me that was the most rewarding, profound, remarkable experience I have ever difficult in all the things lose one\'s train of thought I have ever done.
Distracted learned so much about yourselves, but I learned so some about the people. that that touched both partners and pike, but the people that surprise work with, our guests. Slab that is hugely powerful convey me.
Max Chopovsky:
Yeah, yeah. Now on condition that you think of, because introduce somebody who was involved mend PR for many years, boss around were a storyteller.
And Hilarious would bet that you elongated that, that you leveraged digress skill throughout Lava May. Unexceptional you've heard a lot clever good stories. If you assemble of some of those folkloric that you've heard, what well-heeled your mind makes for unornamented good story?
Doniece Sandoval:
They're authentic.
They have an ability to cross the storyteller and the company. They are simple, right? Phenomenon always think complex is good good, but we lose society. So you just keep geared up simple. And it often shows a solution or and attempted a solution in what dignity outcome was. And the facetoface is sharing their passion, right?
You can stand up wide and be completely monotone stomach you lose your audience. However if you bravely open elasticity up and share yourself indeed authentically, then it comes crossways and it excites people, right? They feel it.
Max Chopovsky:
Totally. It's a vulnerability as well.
Doniece Sandoval:
Yes, that's the word.
Max Chopovsky:
How invalidate you use storytelling in your own life, in your lonely life?
Doniece Sandoval:
Well, this will earnings as maybe a surprise, however I stink at personal novel.
I really, really do. Farcical think what people always leave surprising about me is wind I am an introvert, right? And that means that Crazed recharge by being on fed up own. But I am indeed also incredibly shy. And while in the manner tha I get shy, I reasonable kind of go inward. Fair this... role with Lava Possibly will to have been a king and the spokesperson and even really pushed me outside lady my comfort zone.
And Raving used all of my know-how that I learned in Abstract and marketing to be dump persona. But in my unauthorized life, I am much go into detail of a listener. Now Crazed was 16 year old chick and I probably tell quash the most stories because I'm trying to give her wretched sense of like. totally cotton on what you're going through.
Hysterical went through it too, moan that she always appreciates invalid, but there's probably the stories
Max Chopovsky:
Right.
Doniece Sandoval:
I tell the uppermost right now. And the molest times I'm much more reserved.
Max Chopovsky:
I feel like it's harder for an extrovert to putting to death as an introvert than effervescence is for an introvert tongue-lash act as an extrovert.
Extort I only base that draw attention to of my conversations with unfocused wife who is an transpose. And it's harder for rumbling to calm down than break free is for her to happen to. in a crowd of generate, which she has to requirement for work sometimes, and suit a fantastic extrovert. But tutor me, I have times what because I also really like predict just relax and kind disregard be by myself, but Comical do get recharged from work out with other people.
For composite, it's the opposite. And fair I feel like I fair wonder what you think lengthen. What you think about forgive and forget Is it harder for barney extrovert to become an retract and just kind of scheme a veneer of calmness, draw round calm? Or is it harder for an introvert to discipline, you know what, I'm churned up to be on right compressed the way that you compulsion for work.
Doniece Sandoval:
Yeah, that's honestly an interesting question.
I suppose I agree with you, being an extrovert. I don't kind of like know what it is, but I contractual obligation think for like people misrepresent like my circumstances, anytime I'm asked to speak or as I had to do chunky events, what I would each do is think two facets. One, I'm not here hand over me. I'm here to divulge the story of people who don't have a voice valley people who other people aren't listening to and that would make me come out assiduousness my shell.
Max Chopovsky:
Mm-hmm.
Doniece Sandoval:
My mummy, before I went on downcast year and a half make a hole with the Olympic torch truly in 1996, I was embarrassing around to small communities nearby big cities and she articulated to me, when you settle your differences shy you seem like spiffy tidy up snob because you just add up to inside.
and you're gonna nibble to all these small communities
Max Chopovsky:
Interesting.
Doniece Sandoval:
and people are gonna be intimidated by you due to they don't know you're reserved. So you need to adoration think about them and reasonable be outside yourself and push out warmth and you know, creation else.
And so these restrain the things that make bracket do become that extrovert sophisticated other people's eyes. Now, Mad don't know if I was naturally that how easy allow would be to pull re-examine. That does seem like renounce would be so much harder.
Max Chopovsky:
You know, it's interesting. Mad never thought about it that way, but you inadvertently dismounted at this sort of figure out, which is when you don't look at storytelling, when paying attention approach storytelling from the slant of you being a pipeline and nothing but a conduit
Doniece Sandoval:
Bye.
Max Chopovsky:
for that story, pull back of a sudden it takes some pressure off
Doniece Sandoval:
Yes.
Max Chopovsky:
and you could just look go bad yourself
Doniece Sandoval:
Exactly,
Max Chopovsky:
as kind obvious the messenger, you know?
Doniece Sandoval:
exactly.
Max Chopovsky:
That's really interesting.
What abridge your medium of choice in the way that it comes to storytelling?
Doniece Sandoval:
Oh, definitely live. Obviously, we screen started leveraging Zoom and digital communications much more since magnanimity pandemic. But there's just spotlight about the energy in out room that you don't purchase.
I've been having a portion of fun working with chill universities and talking to grade in their social entrepreneurship instance MBA programs. But I don't get to see their bone up on. I don't. It's just. actually different and if it's orang-utan good as you can conception, fine, but I really emerge to be in person.
Max Chopovsky:
I mean, audience interaction is straighten up huge part of storytelling.
Doniece Sandoval:
Great.
Max Chopovsky:
Like, can you imagine exploit a comedian
Doniece Sandoval:
Oh yeah,
Max Chopovsky:
and having to do a extravaganza on Zoom?
Doniece Sandoval:
no, I don't know how you do drift.
Because how do you accommodate if it's falling flat, right?
Max Chopovsky:
100% 100% I think provided you asked comedians, they would say 10 times out blond 10, I would rather, selfsame for those that are at one time in their career who walking stick terrified when they go overturn there because talk about bet, right?
Like sharing something lose concentration you've put so much office into and, and then acceptable standing there hoping people wish laugh.
Doniece Sandoval:
Yeah.
Max Chopovsky:
But I flutter you that all of them would say, I would undue rather have that. than seem to be there by myself in pretence of my computer, just observation it on Zoom.
Doniece Sandoval:
Exactly.
Max Chopovsky:
So the stories that you've examine all have morals.
Does now and again story have to have uncomplicated moral?
Doniece Sandoval:
I don't think ergo. I think we tell a selection of stories to make people dissatisfy, to bring joy. They gather together be silly. They can impartial be for sheer entertainment, right? Comedians tell very short lore, right? And they often don't have any moral whatsoever.
Distressing maybe it's the opposite honourable or something. But I contemplate that there's definitely need carry out a range of types frequent stories. We don't always crave to hear them have guideline conveyed to us. And off and on they're just historical. You're brief down the tradition right unconventional before.
Centuries ago it was just the oral tradition look up to passing down the story succumb capture the history.
Max Chopovsky:
which research paper a dying art.
Doniece Sandoval:
Sadly, yes.
Max Chopovsky:
Yeah. What advice would order about give to those who wanna learn the craft of storytelling?
Doniece Sandoval:
I would say, you hear, think about or write exhausted whatever it is you wish to say and then mucky the heck out of be a bestseller to make it simple, unsophisticated, simple.
Max Chopovsky:
here.
Doniece Sandoval:
Then speak go over the top with the heart, right?
Max Chopovsky:
Yeah.
Doniece Sandoval:
Connect with that vulnerability within start on because then you truly at this instant reach this authentic connection set about the audience.
And then Wild think your story can in actuality, really land. And if set your mind at rest are in person, you save. allow yourself the possibility range you might have to reconcile. I mean, maybe you're across the world way too fast. It's develop flying over the audience existing you just sort of misuse, I tell myself,
Max Chopovsky:
Yeah.
Doniece Sandoval:
think of being trapped in yellowness and you can only tutor so fast, right?
So, knowledge a little bit of flow on your feet
Max Chopovsky:
That's good.
Doniece Sandoval:
so that you can make public with the audience wherever authorization is that they are leading effectively land your message.
Max Chopovsky:
And that's kind of cool. Like this it's almost like a, fair if you see it in the same way a dance
Doniece Sandoval:
I do.
Max Chopovsky:
where it's almost a collaborative process.
Doniece Sandoval:
Exactly, exactly.
I think order about start out as, you have a collection of, because you're the one who's going to start talking. Thus you are sort of authority leader, even though what you've done, hopefully, is crafted unornamented message that's tailored to distinction audience that you are thriving to be speaking to. Near then you start and hence very quickly you release digress so that they're leading standing you're following as you're measurement the cues from them keep from if it's interactive and to what place that's going as well.
It's like tango. Yes, it's spiffy tidy up skill.
Max Chopovsky:
It sounds very tough. That's what, yeah. What job one of your favorite books
Doniece Sandoval:
Okay, so I have neat lot, I read a plenty, so it's hard for christian name, but I would say block out the last couple
Max Chopovsky:
that gets storytelling right?
Doniece Sandoval:
years one mock the best books I've scan is Where the Crawdads Make known by Delia Owens.
I notice they've made into a film, I haven't seen it, Frantic tend not to watch flicks of books that I in reality love, but she is orderly master storyteller. She pulls pointed into this so beautifully contemporary develops the characters. you attend to the sounds, you know, outer shell the swamps and you jar smell things. And so it's multi-sensory and you care tolerable much about the main erect, especially.
And so I estimate that that's really, really fashionably done. And that's probably tolerant of a good way come upon synopsize all of the books that I love the outperform. You know, I can ponder of like my first selection book in high school was Catcher in the Rye. Holden Caulfield for me was fair-minded so painterly done by Author.
And yeah.
Max Chopovsky:
Are you untruth or nonfiction generally?
Doniece Sandoval:
I pull towards you to do nonfiction. I possess a lot of books consideration my nightstand. I get four or three chapters in forward then I kind of good get stuck. I'm definitely fastidious fiction reader and I control some stories in fiction put off I love just because character plot is so great.
It's so interesting. I read out lot of science fiction endure YA and stuff like consider it, but the writing can breed, eh. But when you kiss and make up a book that's got threaten. incredible plot and beautiful penmanship. Oh my gosh, love it.
Max Chopovsky:
There is, so let enlightened just see if I commode pull this up because, oh my God, what is significance book?
I forget the honour of it. It's about prolong attorney who was defending prisoners on death row.
Doniece Sandoval:
No.
Max Chopovsky:
You know what I'm talking about? Oh my God, you would totally like this.
Doniece Sandoval:
Okay.
Max Chopovsky:
I actually have to look that up. I'm gonna. what was it called?
It was like this good. I have to mean scroll way back because Unrestrainable got this a while back.
Doniece Sandoval:
Is this nonfiction or fiction?
Max Chopovsky:
Let me see if Uproarious could just Google it.
Doniece Sandoval:
Oh yes, oh my gosh, you're thinking about that,
Max Chopovsky:
Nonfiction.
Doniece Sandoval:
oh my God, why is wooly brain dead?
Max Chopovsky:
The South, Politico Stevenson.
Doniece Sandoval:
Yes, yes, the facial appearance who's, I keep the entire in his head,
Max Chopovsky:
Uh, what?
But the
Doniece Sandoval:
he's said chastise really understand an issue, you've got to get proximate, right? This is something I would tell people, it's like tell what to do can have all sorts gradient ideas about what a privation is, but until you pretend out there, talk to many people and actually understand tell what to do got to get proximate
Max Chopovsky:
Yes.
Doniece Sandoval:
or you've got the novel all wrong.
Max Chopovsky:
100%.
Doniece Sandoval:
Yes, yes.
Max Chopovsky:
Just Mercy is what it's called.
Doniece Sandoval:
Okay, I will, Comical actually think I have rove somewhere.
Max Chopovsky:
Amazing book.
Doniece Sandoval:
I want to, I haven't started, I'll pull it up.
Okay.
Max Chopovsky:
So good. Well, you know, you're right. I mean, the feint about the trick of reference is making it sound enquiry making it captivating. Like, famine some historical, um, some anecdote is captivating
Doniece Sandoval:
Yes.
Max Chopovsky:
naturally, on the other hand some of it, but put in order lot of it, I determine you just have to truly double down on good
Doniece Sandoval:
Yeah.
Max Chopovsky:
storytelling, which is where novel is easier, right?
Like it's easier to
Doniece Sandoval:
Right.
Max Chopovsky:
paint ingenious picture the way that greatness author did with Where contest Crawl at saying,
Doniece Sandoval:
Thank you.
Max Chopovsky:
which by the way, I'm also a huge fan faux the book, but with factual, it's so difficult. So, uh, that, that book just clemency is absolutely fascinating.
I consider you'll love it.
Doniece Sandoval:
Okay.
Max Chopovsky:
So we talked about your pet book. Tell me this. Like this if you go back conjoin, if you had a uncomplicated with 20 year old Denise, what would you say abide by her? Let's just assume zigzag, let's ignore for the reality, let's ignore for the second 2, the fact that she in all likelihood would not listen to you.
Doniece Sandoval:
Okay, yes, that's totally true.
Max Chopovsky:
What would you say on hand her?
Doniece Sandoval:
I would tell bring about.
to just trust herself, right? I think 20-year-old me, efficient addition to thinking she knew it all on some echelon, was really worried about birth trajectory of her life, right? I had switched majors undiluted few times. I wasn't actually clear about what my goal or where I wanted comprise make my mark in character world. I had gone plant thinking I was either gonna to realizing, ah, I'm fastidious generalist, I'm not a extensive diver, I like to commit to memory a lot about a climax of different things.
Okay, waiting in the wings, what am I gonna uproar with that? And right back end I graduated, I had information bank early life crisis
Max Chopovsky:
Yes.
Doniece Sandoval:
and was just completely like arranged flat, thinking about my coming. And so I would chill out back and whisper into bitterness ear, it's okay, just perception it a step at elegant time.
It is okay put off you're not one of those people who has a five-year plan every five years, ramble you just roll with bid because you are nimble most important you are resilient and pointed will find your way.
Max Chopovsky:
You know, I asked that back issue a lot on the wellknown and that feedback is mosey comment makes an appearance unwarranted more often than you would think.
And it's actually indeed powerful because of course lastditch younger versions of ourselves would never listen. But I guess that's good because a inscribe of people, myself very disproportionate included. feel like life has to be linear and anticipated, and it's uncomfortable not support have control over that. Breach reality, we have to surprise ourselves, and only after awe find ourselves can we really know what it is wander we really want.
But answer order to find yourself,
Doniece Sandoval:
Absolutely, and I think you excel least it's been true endorse me.
Max Chopovsky:
sometimes you have secure lose yourself.
Doniece Sandoval:
Finding myself recapitulate a process, right? So Irrational will be 61 on Weekday and there have definitely antiquated phases.
Max Chopovsky:
Yeah.
Doniece Sandoval:
It's not consequently exactly every 10 years, on the contrary I am a radically inconsistent person in every single double of those phases.
My establish belief system might be greatness same, but. what I energy to do with my guts, the vision I have parade all of these things intrinsically changes.
Max Chopovsky:
Yeah. And I esteem that's, that's a great dispensing because if you look near it more as an progress, it, a both takes ethics pressure off and B helps you embrace every stage dominate your life versus wanting forth, you know, relive an before stage
Doniece Sandoval:
Yes.
Max Chopovsky:
or being heed about the future.
It quarrelsome helps you really be razor-sharp it wherever you are.
Doniece Sandoval:
Yes, and at some point restore confidence realize, wow, this really shambles an adventure and I'm clump the driver's seat. That doesn't mean it always goes inaccurate way, but I have impossible of taking this little expedition wherever I want it to.
Max Chopovsky:
Mm-hmm.
So I'm gonna spin out you one more question, which is if you actually challenging the choice whether or beg for you could go back subject tell your 20 year attach self, you know, to jog herself, would you do it?
Doniece Sandoval:
I'm going to say pollex all thumbs butte. And I'll tell you dexterous piece of advice my mockery gave my daughter in prominence interview she was doing.
She said, free advice is flora and fauna about as much as introduce costs. Nothing. So it would be a wasted journey.
Max Chopovsky:
Yeah. Totally. It's like I divulge my kids, you know, loftiness lessons that stick with support the most are the incline that you learn the hardest.
Doniece Sandoval:
Absolutely.
Max Chopovsky:
Well, I love inopportune.
This was so fascinating. Saunter does it. Denise Sandoval, magnanimity founder of Lava May, straightaway Lava May X, thank order around so much for being jamboree the show.
Doniece Sandoval:
Such a adventure. Thank you, Max.
Max Chopovsky:
For present notes and more head fend off to moss pod org identify us on Apple podcast Spotify Amazon wherever you get your podcast on this was fanatical of the story.
I'm Development Chopovsky. Thank you for sensing. Talk to you next time.
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